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tv   Melissa Harris- Perry  MSNBC  August 2, 2015 7:00am-9:01am PDT

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we begin with the first debate of the 2016 campaign. let "the hunger games" begin! good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. there are 17 candidates in the race for the republican nomination. that's right 17. this guy, former governor jim
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gilmore declared this week. you may have missed it but with 17 declared candidates the first republican primary debate that will be held this week is already being described as a bloodbath, a multicandidate melee, and, you know, now that you mention it it does feel like an all-out fight to the death battle royale. all the candidates enter and only one leave. okay, they're all leave but only one will win. you know what else is like that? "the hunger games." you drop a couple dozen contenders in the ring and see which one makes it out alive. really, stick with me now. just like "the hunger games," you have the careers, the odds on favorites, the ones that have been training for this day their whole lives. uh-huh, yeah. and you have the ones that will probably go down in the first couple of minutes. right. okay, and you see how it's all about strategy? how does your campaign team get you ready for the spotlight?
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what is the persona that you will present to the public? what will you wear? that's right, the skills and assets of the tributes are assessed before the games begin and assigned a point value, giving the audience a sense of who is the favorite. kind of like these early polls that not only give us the lay of the land but in the case of this first debate determine who even makes it on stage. what do you do when the buzzer goes off and you're in the arena? you can hide you can try to blend in and survive and not make any ugly headlines. try to get in one good kill. or you can throw yourself head first into that multicandidate melee and risk losing your own head right away. you can create alliances, however tenuous. team up with the others to attack the strongest and improve all your chances of living to see another debate. then there are the threats. vote for me or you'll get stuck with this guy. you know like catness and peta
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threatened to eat poison berries unless they were the victors. who exactly are the poison berries in this scenario? yeah right. and like "the hunger games"," the candidates are the most gratifying. it's hunger and, you hope it's votes. there are differences among "the amonger games" and the debates. among the children competing in "the hunger games," there is a lot of mental diversity, more than in the debates. professor of journalism at new york university and michelle goldberg senior contributing writer for the nation. also joining me now from baltimore is corey johnson, senior at the university and the 2014 cross examination debate association champion
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which is the largest debate championship in the world. corey, i actually want to start with you because is there something that actually makes a great debate in the space where you debate that might actually improve this madness we're about to see on stage on thursday? >> i definitely think that debrat wde debate writ large, especially the policy debate we do is very similar to the presidential debate, very similar to i would say, to being in "the hunger games." i don't think there is anything different about it. i think it's very cutthroat, i think that we're in there to win, so i don't think there are too many differences. i think that it's very unorganized, i think it's kind of go with the flow. i think we stress a lot more communication theory especially with this upcoming presidential debate especially with the republican party.
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i think that there isn't a lot of organization right now, but i think that's maybe where we differ a little bit. >> corey, stick with us. i want to ask you, robert we're kind of looking at the nbc polls showing donald trump at 19%, scott walker at 15%, jeb at 14 ben carlson at 10 and everybody else in single digits just a crew of them. if i'm a single digit guy, is my strategy to build a coalition? go after, you know the guy on top? do you all pretend that donald trump isn't there? what is the strategy in this case? >> remember this is a fox news debate, our competitor out there -- >> whose competitor? >> and you're talking about republican voters. so you do what mike huckabee did, which you say something sensationalistic jews going to the oven you say something provocative to stoke the debate
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in the fox news debate. it hasn't worked for huckabee but that's what you try to do. you also saw rick santorum and other people did not condone those remarks. so they're trying to stoke that debate to be relevant to rise up. >> i guess it then creates this per verse incentive. corey is talking about the madness of debate but at least i feel like in the academic debate, there is some substance goal. >> and what it means to win a point. to win a point doesn't mean can you say something the loudest or the most outrageous. part of it is per verse incentives of the media and fox news, but it's also the per verse incentives of the republican party electorate. the way you appeal to a republican party electorate is you do what donald trump is doing, you do what mike huckabee is doing. you kind of say you might use federal troops to shut down planned parenthood. you kind of make a lot of racially -- kind of racial
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demogaugery. >> i hear you. there is nothing i would like to do but go in on fox news or gop, but is it somehow that they're bad or awful or you simply have this incentive of 15 people on a stage, and you've got to make your voice the one that is heard? >> you know i just think that people in the republican field made a huge tactical error with donald trump and they're going to pay for it. i am forgetting who said this but you may know. someone made a remark that essentially said that preparing for this debate meant preparing for a nascar race where one of the drivers was drunk. and that to me describes what's going to happen. if donald trump goes on the attack, what do you do? do you attack him back or do you not? and i don't paint all republicans as the same. i have many republicans in my family, and they have different opinions from each other, just
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as the democratic members of my family have different opinions from each other. but what i'm saying is this debate is already going to be a cluster nutter because nobody neutralized the donald. >> a lot of weird things already happened in the first eight minutes of the show. corey, i want to come to you for a second. i want to play a moment from the 2012 debate. this is governor perry kind of making a moment that people remember as a great debate error. i want to get your response. let's take a listen to governor perry for a moment. >> the third agency of government i would do away with the education commerce and let's see. the third one i can't. i'm sorry. oops. >> so corey, just from a debate perspective, what happens when you have a brain freeze like that. you can't remember the third agency of government that you were going to shut down. is there any way to survive to come back from a moment like
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that? >> i think that there is a great moment to come back from that. we mess up a lot in debate but i think that going back to you know aristotle's three proofs of persuasion within communication, maintaining your etho s&ps skpand pathos you know what i mean? seen taking a breather and say, look -- maybe not even sorry, but that is not what i meant and building your dictation from there and keeping your stance because if you don't, your entire argument isn't acceptable at all and you convince no one. >> if i had a trophy to give, you would have just won it with your evocation of principles of debate. robert, i want to come to you on this, because that's our goal as americans is to realize that in the context of debate what
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we're getting is some sort of substantive capacity to learn about and discern between these candidates, but where we end up going immediately as a media table is it's just going to be a hot mess. >> i disagree with you on this. here's why. every single debate i've watched over the last 15 to 20 years, the front runner always has a big target behind his or her back. because donald trump is the number one front-runner if you will, i suspect that everyone on is that stage, including the mod rarts -- moderators are going to challenge him. tell us about immigration, tell us about iran -- >> they did that to romney who was the big front-runner in the last election cycle. >> a timid massachusetts moderate who even the wall street journal had an economic plan that resembled obama. >> mitt romney's plan is simply not bold. >> he criticized me when he was out running money. >> why didn't he run for
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reelection in massachusetts? >> i realize the red light doesn't mean anything to you because you're the front-runner. >> mitt we need for you to release your income tax so the people of this country can see how you made your money. >> so they all come for mitt but the reality is mr. romney goes on to become the nominee, so do debates matter? >> mr. romney is not donald trump, right? >> no! only in the sense of being the front-runner. >> i think he's the front-runner in terms of polls, but nobody actually thinks we lefive in such a distopian life that donald trump will be the nominee. part of the difficulty is donald trump's following, who i think is not quite as sustainable as romney's, the core of it is very, very passionate. there was a really interesting story in bloomberg recently about a focus group of donald trump supporters. the more the other candidates attacked him, the more his
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followers soured on those other candidates. the more it convinced them that they were just kind of washington insiders who couldn't stand the challenge that donald trump presents. >> stick with us everybody. we've got more on this. i want to say thank you again to corey johnson in baltimore, maryland. may the world look more like corey, the world you just invoked for us on the big stage. up next the big news about biden. before we go, the victim of the last hunger games weighs in on these tributes. >> we've got some healthy competition in the democratic party, but i've lost count how many republicans are running for this job. they'll have enough for an actual hunger games. a powerful new dell 2-in-1 laptop and durable new stellar notebooks, so you're walking the halls with varsity level swagger. that's what we call that new gear feeling.
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to 17 republican candidates this week, there are reports that the democratic list might grow by one: vice president joe biden. yesterday the "new york times" reported that vice president's advisers have been meeting with donors to explore a possible white house run. joining me now, nbc news white house correspondent kristin welker. kristin, how has the vice president's decision here been potentially impacted by the recent loss of his son beau? >> i think that's one impact but i'll get to that in a second. first the background, the speculation started with that "new york times" report saying that vice president biden is taking a new look at the presidential run. i'll just read you a little bit, that mr. biden's advisers have started reaching out to donors who have not yet committed to mrs. clinton. as you say, one of the big factors could be biden's late son beau who passed away in may
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from brain cancer at age 46. he reportedly urged his father to run before he passed and had consistently urged his father to run. now, the vice president's press secretary, i was in contact with her yesterday, she sent me a statement which read in part quote, as the biden family continues to go through this difficult time the vice president is focused on his family and immersed in his work so really downplaying the reports, melissa. but biden's key aides have been working and helping hillary clinton on her campaign. clinton, as you know has gotten wide support from democrats and she's polling really well. the sources say biden would really only consider running seriously if clinton would stumble in a big way, and of course that hasn't happened. having said all of that though melissa, and this is the really interesting thing. if you talk to folks who know president biden and know politics, one thing is certain. once you run for president, you're sort of bitten by that bug and it never goes away.
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you always have that inherent desire to run for president. so it is certainly true of vice president biden as well. we understand he's going to be taking a vacation with his family at the end of the summer and then he will make a final decision. and look he's always said publicly that he will make a decision and announce his decision at the end of summer. so we'll have to wait and see. but there is of course again that reality that secretary clinton has broad support among a lot of democrats, melissa. >> yeah that was true in 2008 too. >> that's a fair point. >> thank you to kristen welker at the white house. up next my panel is going to weigh in and still to come the new political battle over planned parenthood. leave early go roam sleep in sleep out star gaze dream big wander more care less beat sunrise chase sunset
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hillary, it's that we want to win the white house, and we have a better chance of doing that with someone who is not going to have all the distractions of a clinton campaign. joining the table now, my colleague steve kornecki host of "steve kornecki." is this a correct assessment that he might be a better candidate than hillary clinton? >> i think we have to be careful in assessing vice president biden because his poll numbers are very high as vice president and a lot of that probably has to do with the wake of his son's death. in terms of what's going on here right now, i think there is two ways to read it. i think it's highly unlikely at this moment that joe biden is about to jump in this race. i think there is two realistic possibilities there may be some overlap. number one, joe biden at a personal level in 2009 2010 and 2011 endured how many
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stories saying hillary clinton is about to replace him as vice president, going to psychic himkick on himhim out of the job epthe wants. there may be a little toying with it but i think the scenario of getting him in the race is it has to be a collapse on hillary clinton's part. it has to be more than we've seen so far. it could be this. bernie sanders wins iowa bernie sanders turns around and wins new hampshire. she's lost the first two states and joe biden says hillary clinton is a goner -- >> he can't wait that late though can he? he has to be in before iowa. >> it could also be benghazi. she's set to testify this fall. it could also be some infidelities in her marriage. there's other things out there i'm hearing from democrats -- >> what? i think that's baked in right?
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>> well we have to pause because i don't really know that we can just say that on tv so -- not that there may be infidelities but that we just presume it to be. >> i think people have made peace with the fact that bill clinton might be having affairs, right? anybody who is going to be completely appalled by that and find that a deal breaker has already kind of turned their backs. >> so let me suggest this. i hear you, but i think this is precisely what that south carolina operative is suggesting there, right? that needing to have this conversation is the thing that is the potential weakening, but that said, i want to stay away from that for a moment because it does feel like there's icky sexist residue sitting on that for me. part of it that i find exciting about a biden run is his proximity to president obama. we know this president has successfully won both of his campaigns to run and win. i just want to listen very very
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briefly to president obama speaking at beau biden's funeral to joe biden, because it is a reminder of the close personal relationship between these two men. >> joe, you are my brother, and i'm grateful every day that you've got such a big heart and a big soul and those broad shoulders. i couldn't admire you more. >> let me just say, yes, i know there is a thing between hillary and bill whatever but my more interesting thing is the ways in which there is a thing between hillary clinton and barack obama that goes back to a previous time, and that joe biden, that's not -- he doesn't carry that he carries -- like i've stood with this man through everything. >> if you think back to the very beginning, it's so interesting that the evolution of the biden relationship -- >> clean and articulate. >> my old newspaper, the observer, says that. he went from that to getting on the ticket. when they put him on the ticket it wasn't so much trust there, it was, we need someone who can appeal to the working class
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voters, but that relationship has really grown in the last six and a half years to that moment you just played at beau biden's funeral a few months ago. >> for me the moment when we shifted from joe biden says that barack obama is clean and articulate to i see, these two are down with each other. for me it was in the 2008 debate when i was asking sarah palin what happens if john mccain somehow isn't president, and then she was asked about joe biden and this was his response. >> how would a biden administration be different from an obama administration if that were to happen? >> god forbid that would ever happen. it would be a national tragedy of historic proportions if it were to happen. >> he's like no no i am here for obama. and i just feel like that will carry something. >> it does. he's someone who -- i mean he has not stepped out in front very often during the two terms -- one and a half so
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far -- of the obama presidency, and when he did, it was in a way which some people read as strategic and others read as off the cuff on gay marriage. and he actually helped president obama lead. so he is someone who, when he has stepped out from the president, has done it to the president's strategic advantage. so he's proven himself a true ally and a true friend to the president, but i think that the strategic aspects of entering the race when money plays such an important part and the donors have already been pre-massaged to line up with their candidates i don't know that he can overcome that. >> money is real but the fun thing is i'm sure leslie nope is sitting with great joy about the possibility of a joe biden run. thank you, steve, for talking with us. up next those planned parenthood videos and what they could mean for the organization's future.
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a series of sting videos
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targeting planned parenthood has renewed the passion and debate around abortion even helping to fast-track a senate vote that seeks to defund the non-profit planned parenthood. the first video was released on july 13 and since then three other videos have been released. all were secretly produced, filmed and edited by an anti-abortion group, which alleged that planned parenthood is selling tissues of fetuses for profit. they said they plan to release several more videos in the coming weeks and months. all four of the covert videos show a similar format. they are seen speaking to people at a bio firm that seeks tissues for research. in one, an official is talking about techniques aimed at fetal parts, as well as the costs of sharing, collecting and transporting the tissue.
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we're going to show you a clip from one of the videos now. i want to warn you it does contain some graphic language. >> you know i would throw a number out. i would say it's probably anywhere from 30 to $100 depending on the facility. >> that's per speciman we're talking about, right? >> yes. so then you're just kind of cognizant of where you put your graspers. we've been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that so i'm gonna see if i can get it all intact. >> the president of the federation of america apologized for the tone that she showed. she also said planned parenthood did not break the law and a larger issue is at stake. >> we all know the agenda of videos like this and they are
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never designed to protect the health and safety of women. their goal is to ban planned parenthood and the existence of health centers. we will never let that happen. >> the congresswoman from new jersey is here. thank you for being here. those are here to address, so i appreciate you being here to address it. what do you see when you watch those videos? what do you think situate in which this is occurring? >> first of all, i think this is a whole environment of eliminating, reducing making it more difficult for women to have access to a safe abortion. i think that planned parenthood has been a target and a deflexion. first of all, planned parenthood, the majority of its patients have wellness prevention, all kinds of other screenings cancer screenings. they have sexually transmitted infections screenings and treatment, things of that nature. and all the federal money that planned parenthood gets goes to
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that kind of health care. and the people that planned parenthood takes care of are people who otherwise wouldn't have access to health care. and so we're not just talking about women and their access to a safe abortion we're just something that has been discussed, determined and stamped decades ago. we're talking about actually having issues with access to health care. i think it's a republican deflexion. i think it's a right wing extremist deflexion. >> i want to be careful about putting -- so we'll talk as we go forward about the ways in which republicans are now using, making use of these videos to talk about defunding planned parenthood. it's not the republican party who sent out these folks to take these videos so part of what i've been kind of battling with myself is everything you've said about planned parenthood here is true. the extent to which the medical services, the health care
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provision is the vast majority of what happens, but i also feel like, okay we also must contend with what we are seeing here. so even if they are poorly edited -- so i'm wondering, is the issue here about the fact that a shaming has been used to talk about this medical procedure in a way that shaming is not used to talk about other kinds of medical procedures. i'm trying to figure out why we find it so difficult to just talk about this thing. >> well first of all, using a tissue speciman has been very helpful in research: alzheimer's disease, hiv, other diseases. so we know there is medical necessity in being able to examine and research and use tissue. so let's put that aside. so what is the purpose of this? the purpose of this is to further the extremist's perspective that they're all pro life, pro life until the baby is born, then hello-goodbye.
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so this is just really part of their sort of extreme views as it relates to a woman's right to choose. and i think it's also a reflection of the few women that exist in positions to be able to impact these policies and these decisions. >> a california judge banned more of these videos from being released and yet they're still releasing them. i wonder if there is -- and as they're releasing them obviously there is kind of this growing anxiety around it. some folks using black lives matter language to actually talk about reducing the capacity of women and women of color to have access to safe and legal abortions and using, again, sting videos in ways that we have almost come to think of like the body camera videos being used from police stops, and there does seem to be a kind of odd parallelism that is being described between black lives matter. it is fascinating to me to watch
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that happen in our public sphere. >> it's fascinating to me that in this day and age, we are dealing with any of those issues. it's fascinating to me that this is a very unique period of time and i'm wondering what the historians are going to say about it 50 years from today, but it is a period of polarization, of hate of extremism, my way or the highway. it is idealogically based without any logic, you know. it is a gotcha period. i got you, i will use whatever i can to perpetuate my myth as opposed to showing it as it truly is. there is nothing even in the videos that says that planned parenthood is doing anything illegal. even some of the interviewees said, we are a non-profit. we're not trying to profit from anything. but research has its value. up next the politics of it all. there may be a lot more at stake
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here when we're talking about the future of planned parenthood.
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republicans want to strip planned parent hood of federal funding. they say the majority comes from medical reimbursements for specific services which the senate bill won't affect. they say federal funds go to women's health services such as contraception, cancer screenings and testing for certain infections. on friday they were told they would be defunded. my panel is here. michelle michelle, what is at stake in this moment of talking about the defunding of planned parenthood? >> two different things. obviously, it's hard for me to believe that democrats will actually ever cave or obama will
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ever cave. you can imagine they will shut down the government and refuse to pass these continuing resolution -- >> is that a good strategy to shut down the government over planned parenthood? >> it depends on if they're thinking strategically. in terms of the primary, it might be a good strategy and there are a number of people in the republican base that are absolutely demanding this and saying they'll rule out supporting anybody who doesn't go along with it and it's hostage to the extreme of their base. i don't think it plays well in the general election. beyond that, where i think planned parenthood has some real challenges is in the states. these republican-dominated states that are already launching costly investigations that even if planned parenthood has done nothing wrong that to defend themselves in these investigations takes a lot of resources. >> when you look at the gutmacher information about the
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state board restrictions you see this huge spike occurring. >> we've already seen a lot of funding. my guess is we'll see a lot more. and once you start being able to subpoena people it becomes this fishing expedition that can just be used to kind of torment this organization for years and years and years to come. >> so let me play some sound of republicans responding to these videos that have emerged, and then i want to talk more about what's really at stake here. >> today the u.s. department of justice should open a criminal investigation into weather planned parenthood nationally is a criminal enterprise breaking the law. >> planned parenthood is in the business of providing abortion. what we now know, they're in the business of selling babies' body parts like the parts of a buick. >> i've been fighting to defund planned parenthood. i don't think they should get taxpayer dollars, and we got good news today. we are going to get a vote on this. the senate will vote on planned parenthood before we leave in august. >> this does not feel like a
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good faith fight to me and let me just say this. i think there is a reasonable and meaningful moral and ethical public conversation to be had between people about the thing that is abortion. i think that is an acceptable and reasonable thing in a democratic society where people disagree. i think it is different to say the department of justice should open a criminal investigation into one of the country's largest women's health providers. that feels like two very different kinds of things to me and i guess i'm wondering again, in the long term whether or not this actually constitutes reasonable public policy or political strategy for republicans. >> a couple things. one, let me just push back with michelle. i don't believe the government is going to shut down over this. senator mcconnell is on the record of saying no more government shutdowns, if you will. on the other hand, i think this is a general policy discussion because what we saw is what we saw in reference to that undercover expose whatever you want to call it and that could be a rogue individual, and it
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sounds like that person probably is -- >> no no those are highly edited videos. they're not selling -- >> yes, they're highly edited but she said what she said regardless of whether it was edited or not. >> but she didn't say anything illegal. >> i didn't say that. what i said was this is a conversation that i think generally we should ask. >> the conversation is not about fetal tissue donation right? if you really find this disturbing and you say this is something we have to put a stop to, then you have to kind of change the regulations around fetal tissue donation but nobody wants to go there which to me is a sign that this is not good faith. >> this is an attack on women's rights. this is an opportunity to weigh in on an issue that they can't seem to let go. i've only been in congress since january, and i have voted against bills to reduce a woman's access to safe and secure and legal abortions ten times. and they've been -- these amendments have been attached to bills on the environment, bills
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on disappropriations, bills on something totally, totally unrelated. >> like the california motorcycle law. >> exactly. this is just an illustration of they're getting out of the way and dealing with things they need to deal with like creating jobs like infrastructure things that make this economy move forward. >> being the only male at the table, i'm slightly uncomfortable because obviously this is a woman's issue. as a pro-life individual i have very strong opinions about life or death, something you discussed a few moments ago. but let's put this in context. we're responding to something that happened not because the republicans planted the story, not because republicans were pushing this issue, not because republicans want to talk about this issue, but the reality is -- >> they're very much in concert with the center for medical progress. >> what does that have to do with what you said? >> i'm jurtsst making the point
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that you said republicans aren't pushing this issue, but they are because it's exactly what they want to talk about. >> let me pause for a second. my question is why? why would this be the issue? michelle, is it because you're suggesting it's a kind of -- a primary base issue? because i do find it legitimately surprising that this is the issue that republicans want to talk about, even, again, outside the policy in a fewer politics way. >> here's something i think is going on. there has been a sense that republicans have lost the culture wars right? they've been on the defensive on every single aspect of the culture wars. they're increasingly kind of apologetic and resigned about their opposition to gay marriage. the one place where they are on the march on the ascendants where they still have some energy is the anti-abortion movement. it's been key to republican momentum since it rose in the 1970s. >> thank you to you. the rest of my panel will return
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in the next hour. a manhunt is under way for a suspect in the fatal shooting of a police officer in memphis, tennessee. 33-year-old officer shawn bolton was shot during a traffic stop on saturday night. he later died of multiple gunshot wounds. this is the third time a memphis police officer has been killed in four years. coming up, why are the winter olympics going to a place where it barely even snows? we'll tell you when we come back. star gaze dream big wander more care less beat sunrise chase sunset do it all. on us. get your first month's payment plus five years wear and tear coverage. make the most of summer... with volvo. ...and the wolf was huffing and puffing... kind of like you sometimes, grandpa. well, when you have copd it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out, which can make it
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hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor. she said.. doctor: symbicort could help you breathe better, starting within 5 minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. symbicort helps provide significant improvement of your lung function. symbicort is for copd, including chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol increase the risk of death from asthma problems. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections osteoporosis, and some eye problems. you should tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. grandfather: symbicort could mean a day with better breathing. watch out, piggies! child giggles doctor: symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. call or go online to learn more about a free prescription offer. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. happy anniversary dinner, darlin' can this much love be cleaned by a little bit of dawn ultra? oh yeah. one bottle has the grease cleaning
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power of two bottles of this bargain brand. a drop of dawn and grease is gone. in the nation, what's precious to you is precious to us. so when coverage really counts, you can count on nationwide. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪♪ mornings. wonderful, crazy mornings. we figure you probably don't have time to wait on hold. that's why at xfinity we're hard at work building new apps like this one
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that lets you choose a time for us to call you. so instead of waiting on hold, we'll call you when things are just as wonderful... [phone rings] but a little less crazy. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. this week we found out where the winter 2022 winter olympics will be held. beijing! woo hoo! where almost no snow ever falls. seriously. these pictures were taken in january. there's no snow. joining me now, dave ziron, sports editor at the nation magazine and author of brazil's "dance with the devil." what's up with this? >> we are holding the winter
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games in a place where there is no snow. >> where there is no winter. >> it's like holding the rock the bells concert in provo, utah. it makes no sense whatsoever. and you know what? i thank them for doing this because it is a perfect metaphor for the international olympic committee in the olympics in the 21st century, because they are the emperor without clothes. they are liars. and one of the things they lie about is the idea that for the olympics to come to a place like china, which is an autocracy, the olympics will automatically make that country more democratic. yet the opposite is the case. when the olympics go to dmok raesz raeess, they tend to make them more autocratic. and china just had the olympics in 2008 so by that theory, they should be undergoing a de
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deflowering. 200 officers have been arrested in the last month in china, and in addition the relentless oppression of tibet has gone on without a word. without a word from the united states and the west because they want to do business in china, and second of all, without a word from the national olympic committee. the only reason the olympics are even in beijing, a place irreconcilablei shall say again, without snow is because they really have no where else to go because more and more countries are looking at the snake oil the isc is selling and saying you know what? that's not for us. >> does that mean we should be pleased that boston is rejecting their own 2024 elections bid? >> let's be clear. the people rejected the 2024 elections bid? people in the black lives matter movement, people standing up to debt and militarization. these are heroes to me accident people like jonathan jax,
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kincaid, people who did the grassroots work to make that necessary. the elites of boston they went on a full corps press. they spent a thousand to one to make sure the olympics got pushed through. they got larry bird and poppy ortice to tell boston these olympics would be a good idea and the people of boston still said no. they couldn't get below 50% disapproval for the games, so the mayor marty walsh went ahead with the most shameless about-face i've ever seen in human history, to go from someone who said, we have to have these olympics to someone who is then saying i'm shocked to find out there might have to be public spending to hold these olympic games. it's like okay dude. thank you. >> spikinge speaking of the olympic games, what about the water in brazil? >> this is so painful to me because the water -- let's be clear for listeners. brazil is one of the richest countries on the planet. the city of rio is one of the
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wealthiest cities on the planet and yet the government in rio and brazil has entirely failed the environment. before we talk about the olympics, that's what we have to be clear about, is there is an environmental catastrophe happening in the waters around rio, and mainly it's raw sewage that gets pumped in the water nonstop. here's another photo live in conjunction with the ioc officials. they said, hey, we've had this sewage problem for decades, here's what we're going to do about it. we're going to fix it for the olympics. now, someone might say, gee, why don't we just take the billions of dollars and just fix it? why do we have to fix it for the olympics? sure enough they haven't fixed it for the olympics. people who have been training in these waters are already reporting vomiting chills, fever. one scientist tested the water and said there is not one body of water for olympic swimmers that is going to be clean in time for the olympics. it is an absolute sewage zone of waste. i was thinking about coming on
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the show and making a poop joke or two, but i just can't do it because it's just not funny. i was like i wonder if i should make a poop joke, and then i looked at a picture with thousands of fish because they're all dead and they're going to be swimming through dead fish. and i thought about our heroes and sheroes who are part of that 10k water race in the olympics and they're going to be in that water for two hours swimming. it's ridiculous. >> dave you got 20 second my friend. one piece of good news in sports this week. first woman coach in the nfl? what's she doing, what's her job? >> assistant likebacker coach jen walter with the card nals but i have to give a shoutout because i'm a d.c. guy, the former football coach at unc. let's remember the trailblazers a group who stood before macho men and said i am here to leave. my buddy, mike freeman, great sports writer. he says jen na walters will be a
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head coach someday, and i'm inclined to believe him. >> i would be down with that. thank you from washington d.c. coming up next the killing of cecil the lion and why it makes so many of us so upset. also the message behind the empty chair. there's more at the top of the hour. e're gonna pop around the clock tonight. ♪ ♪ put your glad rags on and join me hon' ♪ ♪ we'll have some fun when the clock strikes one. ♪ ♪ we're gonna pop ♪ ♪ ...around the clock tonight. we're gonna pop, pop, pop ♪ ... 'till the broad daylight. ♪ ♪ we're gonna pop around the clock tonight. ♪ pop in new tide pods plus febreze a 4 in 1 detergent that cleans brightens and fights stains. now with 24-hour freshness.
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he was also a study on wildlife conservation and was wearing a collar for research. despite this palmer paid two local guides right around $50,000 to help lure cecil away from the protection of the park where hunting is illegal. once out of the park palmer shot the lion with a crossbow and staukdlked the wounded animal for two days before shooting him dead. they cut off his head and skinned his body. he let out a statement this week saying, i had no idea the lion i took was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt. i deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity i love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion. they will investigate palmer and wednesday the two zimbabwe men who helped him poach the lion, many say the dentist be
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held accountable. those who promote his business have hit him with threats this week. and on line a petition gained 100,000 signatures. jimmy kimmel even asked for a heartfelt call for donations for the wildlife research unit. >> the big question is why are you shooting a lion in the first place? i'm honestly curious to know why a human being would feel compelled to do that. how is that fun? if you want to make this into a positive, you can -- sorry -- okay. >> but amid the rallying calls for wildlife protection a reaction to compare the outrage of cecil's death to the outrage of black lives matter in the united states. that outrage over cecil comes the same week that relatives of samuel dubose buried their beloved after a police officer shot him on july 13. the distress of cecil's fate
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came the same month that sandra bland was added. capturing this concern, feminist author roxine gay wrote for the "new york times" on friday when people die in police custody or are killed by the police there are always those who wonder what the fallen did to deserve what befell them. he shouldn't have been walking down that street she should have been more polite with that police officer he shouldn't have been playing with that toy gun in the park. we don't consider asking such questions of a lion. we don't speculate why cecil was roaming the savannah. she says human beings are majestic creatures, too. may we learn to see this majesty in all of us. it's tempting to compare the suffering death of animals and the suffering death of black people as though they are in competition with one another and gain some zero ground for public
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attention. the degradation of non-human animal life and the suffering of violence against animals is deeply intertwined in the history of american violence. recall the slavery in the 17th and 18th century is distinguished by its chattel element. they did not consider slaves to be conquered persons, they rendered them chattel, beast of burden. by defining black people as non-human animals, american slavery removed any requirement to require black persons and bodies within a framework of human rights. in this way the american slave system degraded both black people and animals. equating black people to non-human animals was a practice that continued after emancipation. it is in a picture of an alabama store here where the sign reads, no negro or april allowede allowed
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in the building. it stands to reason that society believes abuse and oppression are successful ways of treating the animals and implies that all sub subjugated people and animals can be used in a way that is more powerful. it is pernicious for both black people and non-human animals. with me is robert trainer, and director of reporting africa program at new york university's journalism school and former ambassador john campbell senior fellow for africa policy studies on foreign relations. thank you all for being here. let me just ask, are americans actually more appalled by cruelty of non-human animals than they are actual persons? >> absolutely. you hear the outrage of a puppy left in a car for more than an hour and facebook and twitter lights up the whole nine yards.
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when you hear about an african-american or female being pulled over because of a lane switch, there isn't that sense of rage if you have. i don't know why that's the case but it is the case and clearly we need a thought process or thoughtful conversation as to why that is the case. >> it's deeply rooted. at the time the constitution was ratified defined slaves as three-fifths of a person in other words, not wholly a person. >> it's almost too easy to say, where do you love dogs and lions more than people, rather than for me saying if you are a dentist who can go and work to take an african lion out of its secure place to dominate and kill and do with it what you please, that that is not unrelated to a history of slavery and colonialism of black
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people being abused. >> i think it's a great thing because it shows the pillage of africa by rich americans. >>x by a dentist! >> by a dentist, and the africans who live around these animals and have no medical care. there is a deeper thing we can be doing with this moment. africa has been raped and pillaged by rich people including american dentists for a long time. for this guy to go over and kill this lion and then disappear. he says he didn't know that's fine but he disappeared and he came home. if americans want to be outraged, i am happy with that because now we can connect that with the rain and pillage of my continent. >> my father who was deceased is from zimbabwe. i was there in may and the unemployment rate is staggering. so i understand why the men who are arrested for poaching would
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have an economic incentive to do what they do. i'm not justifying it -- >> but you understand what the incentive structure is. >> to give an example, many people in my family have gone four months without being paid for their work. they're hanging on because they don't want to be unemployed but there's widespread delays in salary. and people are literally farming and doing other things to live because they cannot rely on being given the wages by public employers or private ones. and china -- >> and they've been arrested right? >> yeah, the african men have been arrested but china is taking the wealth of zimbabwe the u.k. is also investing. everyone is going after the deep wealth in zimbabwe and zimbabweans are seeing little of it except the ones that control power. >> this doctor was aware of the
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economic situation in zimbabwe. he knew when he flew into victoria falls that these people were having trouble, there is more that he could do with $50,000 than to lure a lion out and kill a trophy and bring it home. there is much more he could do with his wealth and his medical expertise. no one who goes into zimbabwe just goes in there and doesn't understand what's going on around you. it isn't a paradise, people are struggling over there, and his money could have done a lot better than just going to kill cecil. >> so is the economic request a reasonable one? >> it's absolutely a reasonable one. there is an extradition treaty between the united states and zimbabwe. presumably the zimbabwean government will formally request extradition extradition, although the embassy says they haven't yet received instructions. when that happens, it's going to impose a number of important difficulties for the united
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states. for one thing, it's going to involve a judicial process. i would assume that the dentist's lawyers will argue that conditions in zimbabwe in jails are inhuman, and, indeed there was a fairly recent report by a credible human rights organization to that effect. there is also the question about whether the court system in zimbabwe can provide a fair trial. but if we do not do extradition, which finally will be up to the american courts then one has to anticipate that zimbabwe will be less than sympathetic to our requests for extradition of say, drug traffickers. >> so this becomes an actual question of international public policy as a result of this moment of so-called sport. stick with us because when we come back i want to dig further into this and really ask not only about this connection
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between human suffering and non-human animal suffering, but why is it we care more about the suffering of some kind of animals than others? stay with us. ...and the wolf was huffing and puffing... kind of like you sometimes, grandpa. well, when you have copd it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out, which can make it hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor. she said.. doctor: symbicort could help you breathe better, starting within 5 minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler
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for sudden symptoms. symbicort helps provide significant improvement of your lung function. symbicort is for copd, including chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol increase the risk of death from asthma problems. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections osteoporosis, and some eye problems. you should tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. grandfather: symbicort could mean a day with better breathing. watch out, piggies! child giggles doctor: symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. call or go online to learn more about a free prescription offer. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. put your hand over your heart. is it beating? good! then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. it's a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. planters. nutrition starts with nut. when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth...
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they're the reason that i want to protect our community and our environment, and if me driving a that truck means that somebody gets to go home safer, then i'll drive it every day of the week. together, we're building a better california. ly killing of ofcecil the lion has made an outpouring of despair. when conflicting reports emerged alleging that cecil's brother jericho was illegally shot and killed by another hunter yesterday at 4:00 p.m. local time it sparked a new wave of emotion on social media. an oxford university media is
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tracking them saying jericho is at least still alive and well based on gps data. still, the outpouring of emotion illustrates how attuned we are to the suffering and abuse of certain animals. so why visceral emotional connections to lions like cecil but not other animals? this became quite a thing yesterday as we talked about how we feel about narnia how we feel about the lion king and how babe the pig can give us these feelings but, man, we will eat a chicken all day and step on an ant. i just wonder about this sort of influence we have over certain animals. >> if you go to a theme park there are some pandas and lions and so forth that have their own personality, if you will and it's commercialized so therefore we have an emotional connection to him or her.
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look at miss piggy. i'm serious. look at kermit the frog. we feel like we know these people -- they're not people but -- >> that's what we do we turn them into people. so now cecil is our guy, and cecil has a brother, and we're worried about cecil's family. i guess part of what i'm trying to figure out is is this a good that then allows us to transfer this empathy, this sense of humanity to in fact a broader humanity, or is it a bad that keeps us only interested in the morally neutral land of non-human animals because we don't want to deal with the messiness of humanity. >> i think in terms of the big game, this has been marketed for a very long time. in southern africa they have five animals that poachers have given names to and they have called them the big five as you know in zimbabwe. it's thery rhinoceros it's the buffalo, it's these animals. we try to save them and we give
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them names. the big five we love the big five. we have to go to africa and see the big five before we go home. we feel like we're doing something because they have big names, they're big asknd scary, but if you kill them you have a big trophy. we don't name the turkey at thanksgiving, we don't have an affinity for them. we've outmarketed the social that comes with that the responsibility that comes with the animals these people live with. we co exist with these animals, we don't treat them as if they are better than us but we don't treat them particularly special. they're there and we're here. and so we don't name them generally. the naming of cecil has come from outside forces. you know these are the big five so we're going to call this one cecil because he has a beautiful black mane which is quite lovely. i have cats at home i have names for them. but cats that live outside, i don't name them. i don't have a connection with them. >> my director is australian and
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was saying that americans are just culture imperialists because we don't like that they eat kangaroo. i say, how can you eat kangaroo? he says, it's not a big deal. they're around everywhere. >> outside africa lions are often taken as national symbols. the lion rampant of scotland the lion of flanders the three lions that are on the coat of arms of england. they become the embodiment of national strength. >> of a big and majestic -- >> big and majestic. an entrepreneur set up lion baiting. he was promptly arrested by the government because dogs attacking a lion was attacking the majesty of the crown of england. >> so this is that extension, then, from the animal to the person. i want to listen for a moment --
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president obama was, of course on the continent of africa in kenya and he was talking about the elephants. list fornbe for a moment. >> our country is also close partners in the fight against poachers and traffickers who threaten kenya's world famous wildlife. the united states has banned already on the commercial import of elephant ivory. i can announce that we're proposing a new rule that bans the sale of virtually all ivory across our state lines which will eliminate the market for illegal ivory in the united states. >> so this is coming in the context of the president being very critical of a variety of governing structures in ken ka and other parts, and yet the animal piece became part of it. >> yeah, and recently in new york there was also an ivory destruction day where there were all of these, you know, trinkets made of ivory and the point was to destroy them because it's very hard to distinguish.
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technically you can possess antique ivory but not new ivory, but it's hard to distinguish between it. to return to your earlier point about what animals we pay attention to i think we have to pay attention also to domesticated animals. so john oliver on his hbo show had a really great section on how agri business is really destroying chicken farmers by manipulating them into treating the chickens badly. >> yes. >> these farmers don't necessarily want to treat the chickens badly, but they often have very restrictive contracts that say you must keep the chickens in the dark 24 hours a day. there are agri business restrictions of farmers that would ordinarily prefer to have free rage chickens or at least a less restrictive environment. >> what we do to chickens in this country is just horrifying. >> it's awful how horrible the situation is and our own complicity in that as well as the global market. >> if you get to know a chicken
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at all, you actually will care about chickens. they're lovely creatures and i try to get james to let me keep them in the backyard. still to come the continuing allegations against bill cosby and the empty chair.
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if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you. in the news a wing fragment believed to be part of a missing airliner jet is in an aviation plant in france for analysis. they continue to search on the coast where that fragment was found to look for more debris. earlier today, there was some police activity when an object was removed from the coastline for examination. a malaysian official later told the associated press it has been determined that the object is not related to the missing jet. in other news president obama is wondering how astronaut scott kelly is handling life in
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space. he says hey, loving the photos. do you ever just look out the window and freak out? to which kelly responded, i don't freak out about anything mr. president, except getting a twitter question from you. mr. kelly is spending a year at the international space station. it will be the first time scientists will compare a space traveler's health with that of an identical twin on earth. up next elon james white is back to talk about the empty chair. the lincoln summer invitation is on. get exceptional offers on the luxury small utility mkc mkz sedan... ...the iconic navigator. and get a first look at the entirely new 2016 mid-size utility lincoln mkx. your choice of mkc mkz gas or hybrid for $369 a month with zero due at signing. you focus on making great burgers, or building the best houses in town.
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plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again, with aleve pm. welcome to fort green sheets. welcome to castle bravestorm. it's full of cool stuff, like... my trusty bow. and free of stuff i don't like. we only eat chex cereal. no artificial flavors, and it's gluten-free. mom, brian threw a ball in the house! this week new york magazine published an issue in which 35 women came forward to detail their allegations against bill cosby. nbc news has counted 36 allegations against the entertainer. and kozcosby has consistently denied all allegations of an assault and hasn't been charged with a sexual crime. there are 30 years of accusations and they are remarkably similar in the details of what they say
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happened to them and how they survived after the encounters. editor noreen malone writes that the women's stories function almost as a longitudinal study. both for how an individual woman, on her own, deals with such trauma over the decades and for how the culture at large has grappled with rape over the same time period. the magazine focused on the magnitude of the allegations with this. all 35 women, all of them sitting in the same chair, staring straight out at the viewer from the cover of the magazine. the cover was posted on line sunday night and captured the attention of so many people wanting to know the stories behind the faces of the new york magazine went down for several hours. the cover took on a life beyond the article when social media attention focused on a single empty chair in the photo. new york magazine editors explained, quote, that chair signifies the 11 other women who
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have accused cosby for assault but weren't photographed for the magazine. but it also represents the countless other women who have been sexually assaulted but have been unable or unwilling to come forward. shortly after the image went up on line this week in blackness, ceo elon james white took to twitter to hash tag the empty chair and reignite the conversation on sexual assault with survivor stories like this one. i can't share my empty chair story because i signed an nda, needed the money more than justice and he knew it. it was the first of many such tweets elon received and shared from his account. he joins me now from berkeley california. nice to see you, elon. >> indeed ma'am. >> so talk to me about the hash tag the empty chair. what has surprised you about responses to it? >> well, it's not so much that i was surprised by a lot of it. i mean we know for a fact that a lot of women don't come forward, a lot of people who are
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victims of sexual assault don't come forward for various reasons, not being believed because their families will tell them they're lying or just lots of different reasons. but what i was surprised by was when i opened up my direct messages for people to send a message in, i was surprised that hundreds of people wanted to share their stories anonymously, that they wanted to get this out, get this off of their chest. some people would even send messages saying they didn't need me to share it they just wanted someone else to hear it and just to be able to say, i admit that this thing happened to me and that was a lot. >> i've read much of what you managed to repost and some of it also even had to do with people saying i'm not sure that at the time that it happened to me i could have defined it as such. i want to play for a moment a little bit of sound here of
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cosby's lawyer talking with thomas roberts about actually the definition of rape. let's take a moment and listen. >> i agree with the definition of rape and i also would say that as mr. cosby has said through his attorneys numerous times, that is not what happened with him. he has vehemently denied the allegation that he won without consent, gave anyone a drug and that he two, without consent had a relationship or had sexual interaction with another adult. >> okay so let me come out to the table here for a second. michelle, you hear cosby's lawyer there saying i agree with the definition of rape and what mr. cosby did or didn't do and whatever we heard from the definitions doesn't constitute rape. >> right, and what's amazing is that may be what has at least been a plausible line of argumentation before the depositions were released where he talks about giving women qaaludes. at this point it's not just
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these 35 women whose stories kind of echo one another, he has basically confirmed it. at this point there may be arguing about kind of small nuances of the law in terms of the sorts of punishment he's facing but the central kind of narrative that these women tell over and over and over again to sort of devastating effect he doesn't really -- isn't really in a position to deny that anymore. >> in reality, he validates what these women have said. he said, and i'm paraphrasing here, i have a certain way of reading people. i have a certain way of doing certain things. and the women kind of said that throughout the story in terms of him using his power, if you will, either subliminally or react actively saying i'm bill cosby, i can help you. in reality, he is the spokesperson here. in reality, he is the person that is basically saying yes, i'm guilty here. >> so elon i want to come back to this fireor a moment because
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obviously mr. cosby has not said, i am guilty mr. cosby has not been charged with a crime here. there's a thing for me as a survivor in part this empty chair designates. and it is part of this idea that 35 people across multiple decades could have such a similar story and we still have such doubt. i don't mean legal doubt, which is appropriate in the legal system, i'm talking about kind of the ways that we socially talk about sort of our moral and ethical capacity to believe so many people and it reminds me that chair is empty because even when you have 34 other people telling the same story, there is still so much doubt about it. >> exactly. and it's not -- the big thing here that i learned from reading so much from people writing in was that not only was it that they had this horrible thing, that this assault happened not only did after the assault happened they were not believed by people around them they
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weren't believed by the police. they were told literally at times not to say anything. they were told they would be betrayed by their family their parents, their boyfriends. but in the end people just wanted to be believed. they wanted to be able to say this and be able to say this thing happened to me this horrible trauma happened to me and have people go i believe you. this isn't your fault. you did not bring this down on you. that's what i believe a lot of the empty chair is about, it's about we live in a society that refuses to believe women or any type of people who are victims of sexual assault. it takes 35 people to even pay attention to the fact that one man was accused of all this and even in the midst of that they're still being called liars, they're still being told they're being controlled by puppeteers, and women still can't be believed and i'm not sure why that is. >> is it kind of like you're innocent until proven guilty?
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>> whoa. let me be clear. i think the answer to that is no. and the reason i think the answer to that is no is because if you watch the social media feeds, the same people who have a very clear sense of the guilt of other people who have even been exonerated within the criminal justice system. let me just take the example of mr. zimmerman who was tried and found not guilty and yet there is a sense that well zimmerman is guilty of this crime against -- >> people were calling him a murderer when he is not a murderer. >> he is not, in the legal definition, a murderer. where people say we can't really say anything about cosby because we don't know. there are two different weights of evidence. one weight of evidence is about the criminal justice system and we have to live with the realities of what that is. mr. cosby has not been found guilty of that there. but the idea that our public space can nonetheless adjudicate a certain kind of guilt and innocence believe ability or
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not, good bad or otherwise, and regularly fall on the side of women and particularly for women who are victims and survivors of sexual assault, that they are to be not believed i think, is not actually about the criminal justice system. i think it's about something quite different. >> i completely agree. and i think that there is many different reasons for it. they're unfortunately on the side of some women is this idea of if i believe it couldn't have happened to her, then it will never happen to me. you know? >> this for me is so powerful. i'll come to you, i promise, elon but that idea that part of our disbelief is self-protected. because if you did something wrong to make it happen then i feel less vulnerable. elon let me let you in here. >> i want to be clear here. it's not even about people needing to do something that allows this to happen to them like it's somehow their fault. i believe a core aspect of this especially for men, is for them
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to acknowledge what women are saying, for them to acknowledge how women are explaining this situation about their assault. they would then have to acknowledge whether or not they might have played a role in someone's rape in their own life whether or not they didn't listen when someone said no whether they used alcohol or whatever to inebriate someone to the point where they couldn't say no and then they could have their way with them. to actually sit here and acknowledge what women are saying would be to acknowledge their own guilt and often with privileged folks all across they can't do that. >> you are my friend. it's nice to see you. let me know when you're back in new york. thanks to my panel. up next what it means to be an african-american outside of america.
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as a playwright and novelist he was a keen observer of racial injustice. in his collection of essays "the fire next time," he offered an unflinching look at black lives in america. in order to find creative space to write his observations baldwin believed he needed to watch from a distance. he left the united states atfor the first time at age 24 arriving in paris with just $34 in his name. in 1997 when he was returning from abroad to live once again in the united states he spoke about his expatriation he said i had to leave. i had to breathe without feeling someone's hand on my throat. the new generation of black travelers has found freedom and solace in escaping abroad. recently the "new york times" profiled these travelers who are
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coecoae coalesced to share travel tips and the american experience. joining my panel now, billy colbert, founder and creative director of "man about world" magazine and veta robinson creator of "no mads and travel tribes." what does it mean to be a black american abroad? >> it means you have a chance to look at people on a larger scale. i think there is a responsibility that goes along with it. i remember teaching in japan, i was the first black person i know a lot of my young students saw. it was all about my hair and playing in it during my lunch break, and i went there as obama was actually starting his presidency. some of my sentence structures, kids would yell out from the back of the room yes, i can! this is elementary school and i knew they didn't understand the capacity of what they were
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saying, so it really shows what we're doing in country is a projection going out to the rest of the world, and today we need to be careful because that's scary. >> my niece is living in china and teaching english right now, and some of your story reflects -- there she is hey, katherine. it kind of reminds me of that moment, and part of what your site does and part of why i want you at the table is james baldwin was at the intersection of queer identity and blackness. his need to breathe was about both those things and there was always this kind of motorist travel book that helped black folks just figure out where to go in the world within the u.s. and it's also a space where there are parts of the country where -- excuse me parts of the world where identities are policed, are criminalized where it's actually dangerous to be a person of color, to be a woman, to be gay. >> there are 36-plus countries today where it is illegal to be homosexual. and gay people face some of the same trouble that black people face in traveling, and i think
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they also compound themselves. so you talk about black gay people traveling, it's an even broader conversation. but a lot of the themes i think, that evita brought up are very similar. it's the connection between identity and culture that you discover when you travel not only about the people you are seeing but about yourselves. baldwin said i met a lot of people in europe. i even encountered myself. >> that's it that's it. >> and yet i wonder if there is still some kind of american imperialism associated with let me go use someone else's country to find myself. how do we do it in a way that doesn't extract that resource as well? >> i think one thing we can do is make space for our brothers and sisters who are african or other brown people around the world traveling. as a person of color who is traveling as an african, when i come to the west which is europe or america, i always have to bring lots of documents, not just my passport. but africans have to bring birth
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certificates, they have to bring letters from whoever is inviting them. if they go to conferences, they have to prove they're not a terrorist and they're here for a purpose. so when you ask why isn't this line going forward, it's because he's subject to a lot of questions as americans travel og a blue pass. what i would hope for is for african-americans traveling abroad to make space for their african brothers and sisters when they come to this part of the world, assist us coming on literal business and also have a cultural exchange so it doesn't feel like you're coming in and your taking. >> when we went to south india and africa as well we leave a piece of ourselves of who we are in every city and country that we go to. >> i try to get off the tourist path. i had a great experience when i went to mumbai. i was in six cities.
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i started at a conference and we stayed at the four seasons, one of the four snzeasons, there is more than one. i said i'm going to take a walk and these heavily armed guards said, no, don't take a walk. the only thing that separated this luxury hotel from the slums was a big wall with aks. >> go over the wall. >> i walked and a family took me in and served me lunch. i took all these pictures of the neighborhood. i mailed them to the family. we kept in accordance, and it was literally one man in a whole neighborhood who spoke glashenglish and that was the man i got information from. you can end up having powerful experiences. >> what you said there i want to pinpoint on for a moment. one of the things often troubling about americans is we often speak only english. maybe one other european language. i wonder how that limits us as world travelers. >> what i tell people all the time is if these other countries want to make money, there is someone there who speaks
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english. let's be real. that's a universal language so if you want to interact they'll know ofevery language. i remember being kind of ran after when i went to israel with two girlfriends, and i said i'm going to speak french and creole so they leave me alone. they spoke french back. wait a minute! plan b. >> french has become kind of the international language of travel. it also gives us the ability, and with that comes the responsibility, to go out and talk to people. for gay people that also comes with another set of responsibility because we travel with tourist privilege. westerners, whether you're black or white, travel with tourist privilege. when you're staying at the four seasons hotel anywhere in the world, you're staying with truristtrur tourist privilege. jet yet just by our actions, we can put lgbt or gay people at risk. so even meeting people it's
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about risk. >> if i can also lend a few words, when we go places we don't come in with our western, we're better than you, we only speak english. in paris people don't talk to you if you only speak english. i want to learn a few words. >> thank you, all of you. man, the travel. we're going to do more of this. up next two martyrs of the civil rights movement. how their lives and deaths helped change history. people of the world, we are down! yes!
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. i want to read to you an interview that appears in a new book. do you think reverend reed was aware of the bottom? one of the reasons he came to salma? after he saw that he felt that he had to go he couldn't stay home and do nothing when he was
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so much needed there. was the cause worth the risk of death? i don't think i can answer for myself, for jim. for him, any consequence that might occur would merit its coming. those were the answers marie reeb gave to the media questions shortly before the death of her husband. he was killed in selma, alabama, just days ach the 1965 bloody sunday march. and it's the subject of the new book "jimmie lee and james: two lives, and the movement that changed america." joining me now is one of the authors. tell me about james reeb and who he was. >> reverend james reeb was a unitarian minister. he was working in boston at the time of bloody sunday. organizing for fair housing for african-americans. and did make the difficult decision to travel to selma, at
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dr. king's request, to flood the city with support from all over the country. >> and lost his life as a result. that moment for me i had to pause it when i got to this in the book. his wife standing there, reeb not yet gone hospitalized, saying that for him it was worth the risk of death. >> well, at the time the nation had just witnessed bloody sunday on the edmond petis bridge. this was a police action with deputized white citizens who were interested in hurting people that day, who executed horrible damage on nonviolent protesters. and the whole country watched. actually almost 15 million americans are in their living rooms watching ironically judgment at nuremberg. and abc makes the bold decision to cut from the film away from those images to modern images of
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troopers on horseback firing tear gas brigades on protesters fiercely. that captured the moral imagination of the country in a way that hadn't happened yet. >> and so that's the kind of part that brings so much of america in. but if is jimmie lee jackson and his death that brings so much of the selma movement up to the front. >> jimmie lee jackson is part of the nonviolent protest from a church in marion 25 miles northwest of selma. and he and other demonstrators were interested in staging a vigil outside of the jail where james orange was being held the slc organizer james orange was being held on charges of disorderly conduct and contributing to the vagrancy of migrants. he was organizing the youth. there was a rumor that he might be harmed in jail that night. and local activists wanted to
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show their support. as they exited the church to make a one-block march to the jail, the city lights went out. and the police and local whites created a horrible chaos, and caused a lot of harm. that night, jimmie lee jackson, in the melee that followed, was shot in the stomach by a white state trooper and died eight days later from that injury. >> we are reminded as we mark the 50th anniversary of the voting rights act, that this is an act bought in blood, including the blood of jimmie lee jackson, and of reverend james reeb. the book is critical everyone must read it. it's a reminder i think, of the moment we're in right now, that we can't allow the voting rights act to be gutted when it is bought with blood. thachk thank you, adar. i'll join you next saturday at
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i'm not a debater. i've never debated before. i've never been on a stage debating. i don't want to be unreal. i want to be me. i have to be me. i've always counterpunched. you have to counterpunch. i'm not looking to start anything, that's for sure. >> mr. nice guy, donald trump on what to expect from him in the first gop presidential debate. the results of a new nbc poll. air show scare. a military helicopter pilot loses control during a stunt. alive and well relief in africa and around the world over the scare over another african lion. hey there, everyone, high noon

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